new errata and tournament pack

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Damon Carlton
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new errata and tournament pack

Hello GCT

I couldn't find the thread discussing the new errata and tournament pack, so I've started a new thread.

Do you have any idea how long till it'll be ready? 1 week? 1 month?

Also would it be poss to make a printer friendly one available sooner? If you don't want to go that could I ask that you consider it just for Ben Calvert Lee (fleafa) as he has a tournament on the 18th March and he could give that out to only the people who are confirmed as attending please?

Studio
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Both are up now.

GCT Master Enos
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Good idea for a thread.  I'd like to hear what people think about the changes and fixes in there.

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Wogshrog
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Well, I haven't read it all yet but unless I missed something, the ninja can play with 4 models with hail of steel. I'm kinda scared

Ret-darkframboisier
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We're talking about it in the Ret barracks... hope some nerf will be made at some points...

GCT Master Enos
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As soon as some Rets play some test games for me.  We knew this was coming I hope to have a solution for Masters this year.

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Wogshrog
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So now I've read it all ! There is a lot of good things, nice works guys !

Here's my personnal feeling about it.

I do like the new generic theme for tournament player, the clarification for models with 2 profils cards with enhancements.

I'm really hopping to see more Harionago now that she's awesome !

Love the new Ikiryo too, it's less burst but it's good.

I was hoping some clarification about fear/bodyguard timing, and rise/last stand

I don't understand the "Both models switching positions can fit within the area the other models base occupied." To me it means you can't use your slave to bodyguard for Oni and that's a bit sad.

I would have loved to be allowed to shoot and fly, seems I still can't .

Really like the new leech and the fact that you can't get controled models Ki

I was expecting more model balance like zenkibo getting +1 ki or some discount on onis but that might be next ! 

I'm expecting some Bleed models on their way ! Also, can we expect new cards for models with errata ?

GCT Master Enos
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Changed cards for the Store/  Foriegn Language .pdfs will also happen eventually.

Fear/Bodyguard seems clear.  what is your question?

I'll add fly & shoot to my list to look at.

The Bodyguard restriction means literally the physical space on the table.  If your slave is surrounded the 50mm base wont fit, you can't bodyguard.  If you can actually swap places then you can use Bodyguard.

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Wogshrog
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GCT Master Enos wrote:

Fear/Bodyguard seems clear.  what is your question?

If Malosi want to Melee Waka and I want to bodyguard with a slave, assuming the range are all good and the space for the base is fine too, can I wait to choose to bodyguard until after the fear test resolves ? Does the slave need to make a fear test ?

As for Rise/Last Stand, do I have to choose between the 2 or can I choose to last stand if I fail to rise, am I prone then ? Or do I Last Stand and the during the End Phase try to rise

Great new for the .pdf !

Ret-chrishales
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Zenkibo does not need extra ki and Oni's certainly don't need a cost reduction and that's coming for a Wave player haha. Like the errata, all positive changes in my eyes.

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Damon Carlton
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Wogshrog regarding fear and bodyguard. Molasi has to pass fear test to get into btb. Bodyguard requires waka to be in btb with molasi to swap places. So Molasi has to take fear test. If molasi passes test and you swap out waka for slave as molasi has moved into btb with an enemy model that model does take a fear test. So the slave would have to take a fear test.

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Damon Carlton
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Wogshrog you can shoot and fly. What makes you think you can't?

As part of a ranged action you can make a walk movement. Fly applies whenever you make a walk movement.

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Damon Carlton
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Wogshrog regarding rise and last stand. Last stand says you can't recover wounds in the end phase by any traits, so if you chose last stand in the turn you can't use rise in the end phase to recover wounds. If you use rise during the turn and it fails then you can still use last stand.

That's my understanding anyways

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Wogshrog
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Fly: When this model declares a Walk, Run, Melee or Charge action ...

If you want to shoot you have to declare a Ranged Attack action, same for kit feat btw. I know that you can the move as if you had performed a Walk action but you didn't declare it. That's why I'm not sure you can fly.

Fear 

My understanding is that Malosi has to declare his Melee action, then pass the fear test, assuming he succed, he then moves into BtB with Waka. Now I can choose to Bodyguard with the slave, who isn't declaring any action so shouldn't have to make a fear test.

Just wanted to be sure that's the way it should be played.

Rise / Last Stand

Both happen when the model should die so either you choose to Last Stand to fight until the end of the turn and can't Rise. Or you choose to Rise and if you fail you can still Last Stand but you're Prone due to Rise rule. That's why I wanted some change as I don't think it's the intent on the Ki feat that gives you both

Feel free to tell me how wrong I'm !

Damon Carlton
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Your not prone if you fail a rise test as the test didn't work.

Fear says when moved into btb with an enemy model. It's still moved into btb with the slave IMO. I'm happy for a ret to say I'm wrong.

Regarding fly your declaring a ranged action before you roll your dice you have to declare that you will be making a walk action or not. So I feel that fly applies but again if a ret says I'm wrong there it is. 

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Ret-A_Palmer
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You do not fly for Ranged Attacks.

It always goes to tiebreakers.

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Ret-A_Palmer
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That part of Fear does not say when you move into BtB.  It triggers when you declare an action that would bring you into BtB.

So Malosi in the example would still have to make a Fear test to be able to declare the ONI as the target of a Melee action.  Then the Savage Wave player can use Bodyguard if they meet the requirements.

It always goes to tiebreakers.

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RET-Fleafa
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To clarify for Damon:

Ranged Attack: The model makes a Ranged Attack (see Ranged Attack) and may make a movement as if it had performed a Walk action (See Walk action) either before or after the Ranged Attack is resolved. The model cannot make a Ranged Attack whilst in BtB with or in the ZoC of an Enemy model.

No Walk Action is declared, so no Fly.

Wogshrog
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Rise: When this model is reduced to 0 wounds it becomes Prone

It's in the errata 

Fear :

2. Or, an Active model with the Fear trait declares an action that would bring it into BtB with an Enemy model. If the Enemy model fails its Fear test then it enters the Frightened State (See Model States and Conditions)

The slave do not declare any action

Fly : 

You don't declare a walk action, you can move as if, it's not the same, or so I think 

Ret-A_Palmer
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Right, I'll try this again because my faith in reading comprehension is failing.

So are you asking if the Slave has to make the Fear check for using Bodyguard against Malosi?

It always goes to tiebreakers.

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Ret-A_Palmer
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Wogshrog wrote:

Fear 

My understanding is that Malosi has to declare his Melee action, then pass the fear test, assuming he succed, he then moves into BtB with Waka. Now I can choose to Bodyguard with the slave, who isn't declaring any action so shouldn't have to make a fear test.

Just wanted to be sure that's the way it should be played.

Yes, Malosi has to take a fear test when he declares the action.
Assuming a successful Fear test, he moves into BtB with the oni.
The Slave opts to use Bodyguard.
The Slave is not the Active model and action declaration has passed.
No, the Slave does not need to make a Fear test at this time.

Fear only triggers on action declaration, once the initial "I'm going to do a melee action with this dude on that guy" is done, Fear is no longer active.
 

It always goes to tiebreakers.

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Wogshrog
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Yes that's what I'm asking. I'm also asking if I can wait after Malosi's fear test against Waka to choose to bodyguard or not

Damon Carlton
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That's all cool as it helps me as I'm a wave player and my regular opponent just got Tengu

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Damon Carlton
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Yes you wait till after the fear test

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Damon Carlton
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Yes your right becomes prone regardless. Oh well

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Damon Carlton
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Question: The theme in the tournament pack. Am I right in thinking you can't remove an enhancement card from a model to make the list legal? For example of I remove a 4 rice model and replace with a 5 rice model I'll be 1 rice over. Can I then remove an enhancement card to make it 42 rice again?

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Damon Carlton
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I think I got that wrong sorry. I have re read it again a few times and got it now

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RET-Fleafa
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Before deployment you may either:

  • Remove one card (Plus any Enhancement cards attached to it) from your main list and add cards from the reserve to make the warband legal and the correct Rice Cost.
  • Add one card from reserves to the main list and then remove cards from the main list to make a legal warband at the correct Rice Cost.

The second option is what you are talking about.

Damon Carlton
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Yes I confused myself a little. After my 4th read I got it. Duh

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redben
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GCT Master Enos wrote:

As soon as some Rets play some test games for me.  We knew this was coming I hope to have a solution for Masters this year.

 

Excuse the off-topic reply, is there a date for the masters?

GCT Master Enos
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Expo is 2-4th June.  Its usually on the Saturday.

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Zenvious
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May I just say thankyou for modifying Ikiriyo so she's more interesting now. Some may recall I've had a big grump about her as she felt very OP and dull in her original design, and that this variation on her "Look into the Void" really feels like a great overall fix to her in both cases.

On one side her Ki-Gen use is more efficient as this attack now does X + 1 woulds (typically) compared to her previous X wounds - meaning if she spams it she will do more damage overall over the course of a game.

On the opposite she is now set to X always be 3 (or hitting with an SL of 4). Compared to before when she would often pop this on turn 2 to hit with an SL of 6 (or potentially even 8!) this now means that she won't one-shot most human figures who have around 6 Wd's. Instead she will blast a MASSIVE chunk of their HP, but not outright kill them - letting the wounded target do SOMETHING (usually) before dying completely (meaning you can potentially use their two activations that turn instead of losing them completely in one shot!).

Its also cool that she can now use both her activations to use this, instead of it being limited to 'once per turn'. If she can get into a great 'sniping' position on Turn 1, she can still do the damage output she had before, which makes her a more interesting piece - playing a tactical setup game even more than before.

I feel this brings her closer in line with her Shugenja peers, Waku and Kato, in terms of mindful plays and utility while still retaining her original purpose of ranged damage dealer.

My one disapointment is this didn't come sooner. My local Bushido player base has pretty much disolved so won't get to see her field results in person. But regardless, respect to the Retainers for looking into her. She looks a lot more "fair" now.

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Well I hope to get more reports of the "New" Ikyrio back and see how she's doing.  I hope your local community gives Bushido another go, have you thought about joining the Retainer Program and promoting Bushido there?

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i did think temo was going to get a clarification as he is the only model i can think of thet has both reload and ammo at the same time on both his ranged attacks, when its obvious its supposed to be ammo for his blowpipe and reload for the bow

 

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While I think its clear he has Ammo only on the Blowpipe, currently he has reload on both weapons.
He also has some kind of OCD stopping him from shooting the other weapon while the one he has just used is not loaded...

The rules do work but I hope to fix this if it actually fits on his card!  Its quite wordy when you have 2 weapons that have different effects.

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