Rashka changes everything :)

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Ereshkigal
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Rashka changes everything :)

What do you think about this real monster? He's pretty devastating and from our test gained a couple of little useful thing to justify his steep price (you cannot reroll def dice when he first strike you and he can gain indomitable 1 to avoid being bogged down and he lost cumbersome).

Perhaps he's now the best oni in the wave and one of the strongest model overall! WOW.

Hakkor
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The difference between Bobata and Rashka is so big the second makes the first almost obsolete. And Zuba is on his way, being his proning ranged attack the only feature that still saves him.

It's an even stronger Oni but without any of the possible weaknesses the others had, makin Rashka unstoppable: Indomitable, Iron Mind, Auto disengage, Split Attack, nullifies Dodge and partially Martial Prowess.

I'm still trying to figure out how to deal with this monster without  suiciding half your warband against him.

GCT xoddsx
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Would you not play the others as well? Rashka would give them the breathing space to do what they do even better, maybe? Or is the combined cost just too prohibitive?

Interested to hear how you get on with the even bigger, big guy.

Ret-JamesHasker09
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I have no idea how to tackle this guy now, no weakness at all

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Ereshkigal
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I'm going to play Rashka + Zuba for some proning madness. Or Rashka + Bobata + Tra peng for giving as much stun markers as i could.

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undead_ichi
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i was thinking of trying him with yusha, and some dogs at 50 rice think that would be awesome 

Edit:

or zuba, bobata, Rashka, 2 oni slaves and jun think that works out price wise and will wreck face

 

Hakkor
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GCT xoddsx wrote:

Would you not play the others as well? Rashka would give them the breathing space to do what they do even better, maybe? Or is the combined cost just too prohibitive?

Interested to hear how you get on with the even bigger, big guy.

Something like that, yes. Until now, Bobata's main use was to be a prone + stun machine. I rarely find him using his ranged attack, although it's a great asset for models like Ikiryo. Due to the short range and having just 2 dice for ranged attacks, Bobata tends to go into melee and optionally slam.

For one extra point, Rashka does the same stuff, but much better and with many resistances Bobata lacks; and as a Cult player, those weaknesss were the ones that let me deal with them.

Exactly, I beleive the most optimal combination are Zuba + Rashka, so that Zuba can choose his fights and prone a little more. But then, the very discussed matter of model count arises. Looking into the current "metagame" in the forums, where the santandard model count has gone up to 7, deploying two models for 27 points may turn the game against you.

I also have to admit that dealing with Onis wasn't such a big deal. It required much planning and plenty of dirty tricks, but by the end they were generally controlled. As soon as I play a few games against him I'll comment my thoughts.

Ereshkigal
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Zuba + Martial Prowess
Rashka + Unheartly Rage
Tra peng
Zung Fu
Okina and Oto
Tribal Brute

This is the list i'm planning to play. 6 models and the possibility to summon 1 extra bakemono per turn.

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Raynzy
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I dont know why raska got changed from the playtest, he was already really good and now you just cant touch him

Ret-Randis
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There are still ways around the first strike like surprise(big base and low modelcount helps), knockdown or reflexes, but you certainly shouldn t go face to face with him and expect to come out unscratched. Bullets, Arrows and Bolts may also help. ;)

 

I think i like how he ended up.

 

Atrus
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Although I'm happy about Rashka, I'm sorry about my other big oni models... I don't know why to use another Oni now. 

Quote:

 The difference between Bobata and Rashka is so big the second makes the first almost obsolete. And Zuba is on his way, being his proning ranged attack the only feature that still saves him.

Agree. With just 1 extra rice you win First Strike, Iron Mind, More Strenght, Better Special Attack, Negates dodge defensively, can autodisengage, can brutal 2 and ignore armor, isn't even Stubborn... is too good comparing to the rest of his kind. A monster indeed.

Would be nice if the other Oni profiles would be updated acordingly ^^

We need, for sure, play some games with him first. But his profile card is... fearful haha

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Hakkor
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It seems surprise attack will be one of the only ways to tire him. Still, he will surely slam you away unless you go full defense.

Stuns and blinds will also be very appreciated against him.

GCT Master Enos
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If he's looking like a problem for you, just win the grand masters, make a model to counter him. ;)

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Hakkor
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Be sure I'll be there if I have the time and money!

But there's no countering model needed, just to be lucky enough to stop him before he kills/slamsmost of your warband.

Ret-chrishales
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Loved him in playtest and love him even more now!

My list for him;

 

Rashka

Oni slave

Jun

Bat

Kano

Bake spearman

Tra peng

Okino and Oto

 

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Ret-MattT
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He's good, but has a huge target lock on him from Wasapu. 

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carados
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Atrus wrote:

Although I'm happy about Rashka, I'm sorry about my other big oni models... I don't know why to use another Oni now.

I like Rashka, but I'm with this mind set, too.
Are there many situations now where you would take one of the other Onis instead of Rashka?  Zuba seems like the only one to offer something of significance with his ranged prone attack.  I guess Kemono&Ushi offer something different, too. Hmm.

What do people think of a Rashka/Kemono&Ushi pairing?  Minimum 29 Rice is a massive investment, but with Ushi offering Obey and Dominate and Rashka's absurd power, it might bring enough board control to compensate?

At 50 you could have something like:

Kemono/Ushi - 15
Rashka + Rage - 15
Zung Fu - 6
Okina&Ota - 5
Tra Peng - 5
Bakemono - 4

6 models. 6ki per turn to summon more Bakemonos. The threat of out right killing weak models with Rashka, and of Ushi controlling key pieces.  Kemono brings another beatstick to the table if the opportunity arises.  Ushi also has tactician to help with getting that first action in each turn.

Ret-JamesHasker09
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Okies without ranting and such. Simple question as a non savage player how do you deal with rashka realistically now. As im struggling to see how to deal with him I can tie him up but even then he will eventually kill whatever is tiring him up

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carados
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What is the problem you're having?

Hypothetically, first thought is to feed him peons whilst claiming scenario objectives - he can't be everywhere at once.  This will only get you so far, though.  I'm not very familiar with the Cult, either.  Ki feats still appear to be a weakness, even though he has more defences against them due to Iron Mind.  Ranged attacks are also something for him to worry about, but I think Cult are weak for that.

Waku has Death Sentence which gives you an extra melee dice against him.

Wanyudo has the potential to hold him up and cause fire damage.

Wraith can try to offset the damage Rashka causes by healing on the counter.

Large Rat Swarms offer durable to keep him occupied.

Gok brings Cloud of Flies to stun Rashka and reduce his dice.

Taka can berserk and stun him.

A Marionette might cause some trouble if you nab him.

Ikiryo can cause some wounds with her Look into the Void.

The Kairai can use Chill to slow Rashka down, which I think nullifies his first strike?

Again, all hypothetical - I've not tried him!  Obviously, the trick is to do this as efficiently as possible.  You don't want to be spending 30 rice of stuff dealing with him and him alone.  You will have to pay attention to the rest of the list as well, which could be set up to take maximum advantage of the time and space Rashka provides them.

Hakkor
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Large Rat swarm is the best option to conatin him, but there's Fear 5 wich will keep the rats away, specially once they get wounded. Same applies to Gok, who has no bravery and needs to test stupid and then Fear 5 to get into melee with Rashka.

Any model that needs to get into Btb will get first striked and slammed away, except Kairai who will spend ki to turn him slow and be slammed anyway.

Waynudo is the best option to take care of him, but his low dice will mean that he will eventually die regardless Toughness (2). At least, he can contain this monster for 2-3 activations.

Ki feats are also much less effective on him, due to Iron Mind.

What is scary about this beast is that, until now, an isolated Oni was easily contained, and Cult is excellent in board control. Now, an isolated Rashka CAN be contained, if lucky in Ki rolls or spending much rice in models. But, if he's not alone, it will be a really hard time.

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Two things - first is with First Strike. if the opponent is also able to benefit from First Strike does that mean Rashka doesn't "benefit" from First Strike as the effects are cancelled out and so can't have the feature on his card that mentions First Strike/defence re-roll?

Why isn't Rashka or any Oni MS 4 and in Rashka's case lose Brutal 1 and have Brutal 1 as the rice cost that is on the card as a buyable feat?

Played Master Akari against Rashka the other day. Rashka came in allguns blazing spending loads of Ki for extra MS & adding Brutal +1 (making him Brutal +2) but Akari managed to deflect all that and only lose one wound. Seems with Oni once they are tired and outnumbered make them very vulnerable, especially against Earth Kamis!

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mrmccook wrote:

Why isn't Rashka or any Oni MS 4 and in Rashka's case lose Brutal 1 and have Brutal 1 as the rice cost that is on the card as a buyable feat?

His Ki feat is generic and it may appear on some other model that's why there is Brutal (1) or Brutal +1. For now there is now way to loose Brutal. 

My guess is that there is no Oni MS4 because they aren't particularly skilled, they are just strong and angry

mrmccook wrote:

Played Master Akari against Rashka the other day. Rashka came in allguns blazing spending loads of Ki for extra MS & adding Brutal +1 (making him Brutal +2) but Akari managed to deflect all that and only lose one wound. Seems with Oni once they are tired and outnumbered make them very vulnerable, especially against Earth Kamis!

Master Akari is the best defender in the whole game and with Rashka you just need a bit of luck and a Succes Level 1 to kill him, I think it's fair.

Yes Onis are in really bad spot if outnumbered/exhausted, you have to play to avoid that. Earth kami are nasty because they hit hard and don't care about fear but on average if you're exhausted, outnumbered and roll 1 def to their 2, you should loose 2-3 wound so you'll have a lot left !

mrmccook
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Many thanks for replies. Anyone have an answer about "with First Strike. if the opponent is also able to benefit from First Strike does that mean Rashka doesn't "benefit" from First Strike as the effects are cancelled out and so can't have the feature on his card that mentions First Strike/defence re-roll?"

Wogshrog
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I didn't answer because I'm not sure, I think first strike rule apply as long as you didn't start the Melee in BtB with an enemy. But it's kind of rare to be able to reroll your def and having first strike

mrmccook
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Thanks. So the question really is if Rashka (with First Strike) starts the activation not in BTB with enemy and goes into melee and the target model (with First Strike) is also not in BTB with enemy then Rashka still gains the iniative in melee because he is the attacker but not because of using First Strike (as both models have First Strike in which case surely First Stike effect is nullified?) Rashka's card says "when this model benefits from First Strike". I agree that it might be rare to have chance to re-roll defence dice and have First Strike but Sojobo, as an example, has First Strike and Martial Prowess ... so it would be good to know. :)

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Rashka would still benefit from first strike even if the effect is nullified. If something states they cannot gain the benefit then it would cancel (surprised state for example). First strike doesn't nullify itself, merely both models gain the benefit so it would go on turn order.

Axiam

mrmccook
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Hi and thanks for the reply. I suppose my issue is with the wording "benefit". For example Lightning Reflexes states "If two models in a Melee Exchange have this trait then neither gains the benefit.". The benefit with Lightning Reflexes is to always be the first to attack in melee exchanges, to gain the iniative.

In a normal melee situation, without First Strike or Lightning Reflexes or Slow, the attacker usually strikes first and has the iniative.

So my point with First Strike ("the model gains the iniative") is shouldn't the same thought process apply to First Strike? i.e. if both models have this trait then neither gains the benefit, of gaining the iniative, and the iniative just stays with the attacker as is the default in a normal melee exchange?

Two examples:

1. Rashka goes into melee with Sojobo. They both have First Strike so Rashka doesn't gain any benefit from using First Strike and just has the iniative being the attacker. Sojobo is allowed to re-roll any defence dice by using Martial Prowess

2. Hagane Takashi goes into melee with Rashka. Rashka has First Strike and Hagane doesn't so Rashka is able to benefit from First Strike and takes the iniative and therefore Hagane isn't able to re-roll any defence dice with the Martial Prowess ability

Do you see what I mean? Any Ret's wish to chip in to clarify then please feel free.

Ret-darkframboisier
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Both your examples are correct, but I puzzled by your vision of martial prowess: you can re-roll any dice, attack or defense, and all your dices are thrown at the same time.

The initiative just gives you the order of resolution of attacks and defense, but sometimes, in your first case, if sojobo has let's say one dice in attack, you can check the score, and decide to keep your defense and reroll your attack instead.

Then again, during a melee the initiative goes to the active player, unless one has first strike (making him go first) lightning relfexes (making him before first strike) or slow (making him after anything else).

First strike applies only to your first melee, when someone comes to fight you, it doesn't trigger anymore if you're already engaged. It doesn't work if your surprised neither.

 

Ret-darkframboisier
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Both your examples are correct, but I puzzled by your vision of martial prowess: you can re-roll any dice, attack or defense, and all your dices are thrown at the same time.

The initiative just gives you the order of resolution of attacks and defense, but sometimes, in your first case, if sojobo has let's say one dice in attack, you can check the score, and decide to keep your defense and reroll your attack instead.

Then again, during a melee the initiative goes to the active player, unless one has first strike (making him go first) lightning relfexes (making him before first strike) or slow (making him after anything else).

First strike applies only to your first melee, when someone comes to fight you, it doesn't trigger anymore if you're already engaged. It doesn't work if your surprised neither.

 

mrmccook
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Hi Ret-Darkframboisier. I know that Martial Prowess lets me re-roll either attack or defence normally.

The issue is Rashka. The card says "when this model benefits from First Strike in a melee exchange enemy models cannot re-roll Defence dice".

So by my understanding:

In example 1. Rashka goes into melee with Sojobo. Sojobo rolls 4 dice in defence, (2,2,2,2) and the Unique Effect for Rashka from his card doesn't apply as Rashka isn't getting any benefit from having First Strike - he just has the benefit of being the attacker first with iniative so Sojobo is allowed to use Martial Prowess to re-roll one of those defence dice.

In example 2. Hagane Takashi goes into melee with Rashka. Hagane rolls 2 dice in attack (6,5) and 2 dice in defence (2,2) BUT because Rashka does benefit from First Strike then it means Hagane cannot reroll any defence dice using Martial Prowess.

Ret-darkframboisier
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First Strike: This model gains the Initiative for the first Melee Exchange with an Enemy model if it started the Melee Exchange not in BtB with it, or another Enemy model.

So my guess is, as long as you were not in BtB already with any model before the exchange change starts (and considering you're not surprised) nothing says that first strike doens't trigger, EVEN if you're the active player.

My guess in the case of Sojobo, is that tha both benefits from it (evening out the initiative in the process), but yet, nothing says that first strike disappears or is canceled (unlike terror and bravery, or defensive and agressive where one explicitely cancels the other)

Here, both benefits, so normal order applies again, and Raksha's ability triggers as normal.

And the case of Hagane works too.

My bet would the only case your ability doesn't trigger: you're already in BtB before the melee exchange / you're surprised...

Even if another guy has Lightning reflex, it doesn't cancel tha benefit of first strike, it simply supercede it...

So your ability would still trigger, you stille benefit from it, it's just that in this last case, this benefit is not enough... perhaps somebody could infirm or infirm my reading of the rules?

Ret-darkframboisier
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my god so many typos in this post...

mrmccook
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O.K. thanks I think I get the picture now thanks for the replies and posts and don't worry so much about typos! :)

yenohoney